From lockyert at mweb.co.za  Wed Nov  4 08:40:03 2009
From: lockyert at mweb.co.za (Terrence Lockyer)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 18:40:03 +0200
Subject: [LCC] Davidson on Verstraete's and Hubbard's reviews
Message-ID: <09037E48FB534D8C9DEE5AA19EF0A2CE@olorin>

James Davidson responds at

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2009/2009-11-03.html

or

http://www.bmcreview.org/2009/11/20091103.html

To Beert Verstraete's[[1]] and Thomas Hubbard's[[2]] reviews of 
The Greeks and Greek Love.


Terrence Lockyer
Johannesburg, South Africa

[[1]]  Verstraete:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2009/2009-09-61.html
http://www.bmcreview.org/2009/09/20090961.html

[[2]]  Hubbard (on H-Histsex):

http://bit.ly/903nI 




From jonesgs at indiana.edu  Wed Nov  4 10:11:32 2009
From: jonesgs at indiana.edu (Jones,  Gregory S.)
Date: Wed,  4 Nov 2009 13:11:32 -0500
Subject: [LCC] Davidson on Verstraete's and Hubbard's reviews
In-Reply-To: <09037E48FB534D8C9DEE5AA19EF0A2CE@olorin>
References: <09037E48FB534D8C9DEE5AA19EF0A2CE@olorin>
Message-ID: <20091104131132.ce2r4mcdw84ggg04@webmail.iu.edu>

hmmm...would it be fair to say that Davidson ultimately resorts to ad 
hominem attacks in defense of the criticism aimed at the weaker aspects 
of his argument (or what Hubbard calls "an insufferable cesspool of 
dross")?  And if so, what does this say about the editorial policies of 
the BMCR?

Quoting Terrence Lockyer <lockyert at mweb.co.za>:

> James Davidson responds at
>
> http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2009/2009-11-03.html
>
> or
>
> http://www.bmcreview.org/2009/11/20091103.html
>
> To Beert Verstraete's[[1]] and Thomas Hubbard's[[2]] reviews of
> The Greeks and Greek Love.
>
>
> Terrence Lockyer
> Johannesburg, South Africa
>
> [[1]]  Verstraete:
>
> http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2009/2009-09-61.html
> http://www.bmcreview.org/2009/09/20090961.html
>
> [[2]]  Hubbard (on H-Histsex):
>
> http://bit.ly/903nI
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> members mailing list
> members at lambdacc.org
> http://lambdacc.org/mailman/listinfo/members_lambdacc.org
>





From lockyert at mweb.co.za  Wed Nov  4 11:41:09 2009
From: lockyert at mweb.co.za (Terrence Lockyer)
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 21:41:09 +0200
Subject: [LCC] Davidson on Verstraete's and Hubbard's reviews
References: <09037E48FB534D8C9DEE5AA19EF0A2CE@olorin>
	<20091104131132.ce2r4mcdw84ggg04@webmail.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <B8E84E91506E49A1916DDFBD4D1EDC98@olorin>

Gregory S. Jones writes:

: hmmm...would it be fair to say that Davidson ultimately
: resorts to ad hominem attacks in defense of the criticism
: aimed at the weaker aspects of his argument (or what
: Hubbard calls "an insufferable cesspool of dross")?  And
: if so, what does this say about the editorial policies of
: the BMCR?

I can't know, but suspect that Davidson would respond that he had 
been accused of "catering to contemporary sensibilities" and 
"creating an anachronistically sanitized and romanticized 
picture" in framing his arguments (that is, of seeing the ancient 
world through the lens of a modern agenda), so it is fair to 
consider whether his accusers themselves have an agenda in making 
what are, after all, fairly strongly-worded attacks;  which he 
apparently thinks they do.  (Please note:  I am making no 
judgement as to the rights and wrongs;  just stating what I 
presume would be Davidson's view, on the basis of what he 
writes.)


Terrence Lockyer
Johannesburg, South Africa 




From bburns at wellesley.edu  Thu Nov  5 08:51:37 2009
From: bburns at wellesley.edu (Bryan E. Burns)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:51:37 -0500
Subject: [LCC] conversations
Message-ID: <fc.006640d81eb76367006640d81eb76367.1eb765df@firstclass.wellesley.edu>

Hi all,

Mark Miner has just written with a very positive account of the recent
discussion "How to manage difficult conversations in Classics Classrooms"
at the Classical Association of the Atlantic States, organized by Lilian
Doherty and Nancy Rabinowitz.

In light of the continuing discussion of Davidson, Hubbard et al., please
remember that you can take these discussions further at our LCC roundtable
in Anaheim:
Explaining ?Otherness?: Ancient (Homo)sexuality in the Classroom
< http://lambdacc.org/panels/2010table.html >

Mark also offers for consideration the recent troubles and suicide of a
high school Latin teacher in Toronto:
http://www.nationalpost.com/related/topics/story.html?id=2066608





Bryan Burns

Classical Studies
Wellesley College
106 Central Street
Wellesley, MA 02481

Office Telephone: 781-283-2632
Department Fax: 781-283-3711



From blondell at u.washington.edu  Mon Nov  9 09:39:44 2009
From: blondell at u.washington.edu (Ruby)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:39:44 -0800
Subject: [LCC] [Fwd: WCC/LCC Table volunteers]
Message-ID: <4AF853E0.60604@u.washington.edu>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: WCC/LCC Table volunteers
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:14:24 -0600
From: Antonios Augoustakis <aaugoust at illinois.edu>
To: 'Ruby' <blondell at u.washington.edu>

Dear WCC and LCC members,


Like every year, we will be staffing an exhibit table at the AIA/APA annual
meeting in Anaheim in January -- and I'd like to ask for your help!  We're
looking for volunteers for time slots (ranging between 1 and 2 hours)
throughout the day on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.
Volunteering essentially means that you sit at the table, engage with anyone
who comes by for information about the WCC and LCC, potentially sign up a
new member or two, and verify membership status for WCC and LCC members who
stop by to ask.

It's really easy to do, it's another way to get to meet other WCC/LCC
members, and I've found that the hour or so goes by faster than you might
expect.  So please e-mail me, Ted Gellar-Goad, at tedgellar at gmail.com to
sign up for one (or more!) of the times listed below.  And thanks in advance
for your help!


    Wednesday 6 January
        2:00 p.m. - 3:30 p.m.
        3:30 p.m. - 5:00 p.m.
        5:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m.

    Thursday 7 January
        9:30 a.m. - 11:00 a.m.
        11:00 a.m.- 12:30 p.m.
        12:30 p.m. - 2:00 p.m.
        2:00 p.m. -  3:30 p.m.
        3:30 p.m. - 5:30 p.m.

    Friday 8 January
        9:30 a.m. - 11:00 a.m.
        11:00 a.m.- 12:30 p.m.
        12:30 p.m. - 2:00 p.m.
        2:00 p.m. -  3:30 p.m.
        3:30 p.m. - 5:30 p.m.

    Saturday 9 January
        8:00 a.m. - 10:00 a.m.
        10:00 a.m.- 12:00 noon


Sincerely,
Ted Gellar-Goad
WCC junior graduate student liaison
tedgellar at gmail.com




From lockyert at mweb.co.za  Wed Nov 11 06:22:34 2009
From: lockyert at mweb.co.za (Terrence Lockyer)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:22:34 +0200
Subject: [LCC] More on Davidson's The Greeks and Greek Love
Message-ID: <AAF65DA8811043799EB32BC3267BD7D5@olorin>

At Bryn Mawr Classical Review 2009.11.15, on-line at

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2009/2009-11-15.html

or

http://www.bmcreview.org/2009/11/20091115.html

Kirk Ormand continues the discussion of James Davidson's /The
Greeks and Greek Love/ (London : Weidenfeld & Nicolson 2007 / New
York : Random House 2009), responding to Davidson's remarks in
BMCR 2009.11.03[[1]] in reply to Beert Verstraete's review of
Davidson at BMCR 2009.09.61[[2]] and Thomas Hubbard's on
H-Histsex[[3]].

Links:

[[1]]  Davidson' response to Verstraete's and Hubbard's reviews:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2009/2009-11-03.html
http://www.bmcreview.org/2009/11/20091103.html

[[2]] Verstraete's review:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2009/2009-09-61.html
http://www.bmcreview.org/2009/09/20090961.html

[[3]] Hubbard's review:

http://bit.ly/903nI

which is short for

http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=H-Histsex&month=0902&week=b&msg=Ug%2BYuljwHAbsmjyw%2BhMXhQ

Other reviews:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2008/2008-07-20.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/jan/05/history.society

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/non_fictionreviews/3670307/Getting-jiggy-with-ancient-Greeks.html
(or http://bit.ly/1SI4wz)

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=400074

http://arts.independent.co.uk/books/reviews/article3248047.ece

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/17/AR2009061703407.html

http://www.cleveland.com/books/index.ssf/2009/06/scholar_james_davidson_boldly.html


Terrence Lockyer
Johannesburg, South Africa
e-mail:  lockyert [at] mweb.co.za 




From lockyert at mweb.co.za  Thu Nov 12 11:08:14 2009
From: lockyert at mweb.co.za (Terrence Lockyer)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:08:14 +0200
Subject: [LCC] Classics Threatened at Michigan State University
Message-ID: <934EDD0C40F14AA49D6D3AEC1C2045BE@olorin>

My apologies for the inevitable effects of cross-posting.  I 
thought listmembers here might wish to know of the threat to 
Classics at the Michigan State University.  David Meadows has a 
detailed blog posting with quotes from and links to the relevant 
documents and coverage, at

 http://rogueclassicism.com/2009/11/12/classics-threatened-at-msu/There is also an on-line petition athttp://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Save-Classical-Studies-at-MSUTerrence LockyerJohannesburg, South Africa



From lockyert at mweb.co.za  Thu Nov 12 13:42:21 2009
From: lockyert at mweb.co.za (Terrence Lockyer)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:42:21 +0200
Subject: [LCC] Classics Threatened at Michigan State University (Corrected)
Message-ID: <288E977434174D6594BF93BFA9B597C9@olorin>

I have no idea what happened to the formatting there.  This is
the message I intended to post:

My apologies for the inevitable effects of cross-posting.  I
thought listmembers here might wish to know of the threat to
Classics at the Michigan State University.  David Meadows has a
detailed blog posting with quotes from and links to the relevant
documents and coverage, at

http://rogueclassicism.com/2009/11/12/classics-threatened-at-msu/

There is also an on-line petition at

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Save-Classical-Studies-at-MSU


Terrence Lockyer
Johannesburg, South Africa 




From lockyert at mweb.co.za  Sun Nov 15 22:28:27 2009
From: lockyert at mweb.co.za (Terrence Lockyer)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:28:27 +0200
Subject: [LCC] Yet More on Davidson's The Greeks and Greek Love
Message-ID: <C0F564529AA3436D97A1E671D92759D8@olorin>

Listmembers interested in one aspect of the ongoing debates about 
sexuality in the ancient Greek world may be interested to learn 
that the Bryn Mawr Classical review has issued a correction to 
BMCR 2009.11.03 (James Davidson's response to two reviews of his 
book /The Greeks and Greek Love/).  The text of the correction 
has been distributed to subscribers to the e-mail version of the 
BMCR, and has been inserted above Davidson's comments at

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2009/2009-11-03.html

It comes in response to the long comment submitted by Thomas K. 
Hubbard to the blog version of Davidson's response (BMCR 
2009.11.03) at

http://www.bmcreview.org/2009/11/20091103.html

To keep this message as short as is reasonably possible, I will 
not rehearse the controversy.  The fullest context is provided by 
the text of and links in my previous post on this, which is 
available in the public archive of the Lambda Classical Caucus 
mailing list at

http://lambdacc.org/pipermail/members_lambdacc.org/2009-November/000469.html

and also in the public archive of H-Histsex on H-Net at

http://bit.ly/1hPAkI

which is a short URL leading to

http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=H-Histsex&month=0911&week=b&msg=AeN2BHc4cWnoGOAwvRvVfg

in case the latter should break in transmission.


Terrence Lockyer
Johannesburg, South Africa
e-mail:  lockyert [at] mweb.co.za 




From andrewlear2 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 18 10:18:14 2009
From: andrewlear2 at gmail.com (Andrew Lear)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 10:18:14 -0800
Subject: [LCC] paperback!!!
Message-ID: <7a8aceec0911181018r4a793341x32442a0a1858900c@mail.gmail.com>

Friends!  Colleagues!  (3rd noun?)

Several people in the LCC have said to me that they would like to use
Eva Cantarella and my book (Images of Ancient Greek Pederasty) in
their gender courses if it were available as a paperback for $40 or
under, so I just thought I should tell you that it will be available
SOON.  It's listed on Amazon as available on 12/24 for $37.75 - and
frankly, I would be unsure whether I could order a book for a course
unless it was already out.  But I have already received my prelim
copy, and I know that the first printing is either done or being done.
 So...I don't know if anyone was planning to use it this spring, but
in case you were, it really does seem that it will be available.  best
to everyone!    Andrew

Oh, btb, I was in some sympathy with Tom Hubbard's complaint that the
illustrations were not as clear as one might expect in a $115 book -
but for a $40 paperback they are SPLENDID.


From jyounger at ku.edu  Thu Nov 19 05:28:20 2009
From: jyounger at ku.edu (John G. Younger)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:28:20 -0600
Subject: [LCC]  Fwd: Ruderman professor of Jewish Studies
In-Reply-To: <20091118184824.whkozz9lcc8wkcww@webmail.whitman.edu>
Message-ID: <C72AA414.C92A%jyounger@ku.edu>



----- Forwarded message from j.ross at neu.edu -----
    Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:03:02 -0500
    From: "Ross, James" <j.ross at neu.edu>
Subject: Ruderman professor of Jewish Studies

We are currently seeking candidates for the Ruderman professorship at
Northeastern University and would appreciate your help in recruiting
lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex, & queer persons for the
position. Thank you.

Jim Ross

James R. Ross
Director, Jewish Studies Program
Associate Professor of Journalism
102 Lake Hall
Northeastern University
Boston, MA 02115



RUDERMAN PROFESSOR OF JEWISH STUDIES

Northeastern University invites applications for the Ruderman Professor
of Jewish Studies.  The field of specialization is open within the
arts, humanities, and the social sciences. A terminal degree is
required.  The successful candidate will have a record of substantial
publication and professional visibility in the field of Jewish Studies;
a strong commitment to undergraduate and graduate education; and
experience in or a demonstrated commitment to working with diverse
student populations and/or in a culturally diverse work and educational
environment.  The Committee is looking for an energetic and creative
scholar who will take an active role in shaping a dynamic and growing
program and major.  Current faculty in Jewish Studies come from many
disciplines, providing Northeastern students with a broad exposure to
the study of Jewish religion, culture, and identity.  The Jewish
Studies Program has significant relationships with the broader Jewish
community as well as other Jewish Studies programs located in the heart
of the intellectually vibrant city of Boston. Tenure will be within an
appropriate department and/or within the Jewish Studies program.
Salary, rank and workload will be commensurate with the candidate?s
experience and qualifications.  To apply, visit the college website,
http://www.northeastern.edu/cas/, and click on ?Faculty Positions.?
  Applications should include a current curriculum vitae, description
of research interests, evidence of teaching effectiveness, samples of
published research, and the names and contact information of three
references.  If you have any questions, please contact Prof. Jim Ross
at 617-373-8701.  Applications received by December 7, 2009, will
receive fullest consideration.  Northeastern University is an Equal
Opportunity, Affirmative Action Educational Institution and Employer,
Title IX University.  Northeastern University particularly welcomes
applications from minorities, women and persons with disabilities.

----- End forwarded message -----





From lockyert at mweb.co.za  Mon Nov 30 09:05:01 2009
From: lockyert at mweb.co.za (Terrence Lockyer)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:05:01 +0200
Subject: [LCC] Roman sexual terms in the news
Message-ID: <E3983F3E49744E45B18242A2081A3433@olorin>

Listmembers may be interested in a spate of articles on British 
news websites dealing with sexual terms in ancient Roman 
literature, and specifically in the Roman poet Catullus (and I 
ask those who know Latin and the Catullan text linked below to 
bear with me if I preface the links with some basic explanation, 
as I am submitting this post to two lists with different 
demographics).

What distinguishes these pieces from the usual kind of reporting 
on such matters is that several of them have been written by well 
qualified classicists, and in a couple of cases the comments to 
these pieces have also shown a more than usual level of knowledge 
and sophistication.

The background is explained briefly by this BBC report:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/8375511.stm

In sum, it appears that a London financier being prosecuted on 
another matter had replied to a passage of biblical Latin on the 
theme of "love your enemy" with a text message containing the 
Latin "irrumabo vos et pedicabo vos" - literally, "I will thrust 
my penis into your mouths and bugger you", but also as far as we 
can tell used as general insults in the way "fuck you" or "bugger 
off" are in English.  The point at issue is what exactly might be 
meant by sending such a text, and that is what has been discussed 
in the better coverage.

The line itself is a slight misquote of a very famous short poem 
of Catullus, no. 16, which is widely regarded as programmatic for 
the obscene vocabulary of his short poems, and is on-line in 
Latin at

http://rudy.negenborn.net/catullus/text2/l16.htm

and

http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/catullus.shtml#16

and in Guy Lee's English translation at

http://rudy.negenborn.net/catullus/text2/e16.htm

Also worth mentioning for good notes and a very felicitous 
version of the final line, and despite the limitations on 
literalness imposed by its period, is Walter Kelly's 1854 prose 
version in Bohn's Libraries, available on-line from a 1910 
printing at

http://www.archive.org/stream/poemsofcatullust00catuuoft#page/n33/mode/1up

The best comments, both by the original poster and by those 
responding, come from Mary Beard (Professor of Classics at 
Cambridge) in her blog:

http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2009/11/pedicabo-ego-vos-et-irrumabo-what-was-catullus-on-about.html

and from the Guardian's classically educated senior arts writer 
Charlotte Higgins at

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/charlottehigginsblog/2009/nov/24/catullus-mark-lowe?showallcomments=true

Beard also links to a PDF scan of a theoretically sophisticated 
analysis of the poem on pp. 476-89 of

 - Daniel L. Selden, "Ceveat lector:  Catullus and the Rhetoric 
of Performance", pp. 461-512 in Ralph Hexter and Daniel Selden 
(edd.), Innovations of Antiquity (New York and London : Routledge 
1992) [NOTE:  It is "ceveat" - Selden is making a pun.]

There is also a decent but less focussed piece for the Daily Mail 
(yes, I know) by Tom Holland (whose name the site sadly 
misspells), author of some well regarded popular works on ancient 
history:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1230656/Sexus-Maximus-The-poet-Romans-blush.html

and this in the Evening Standard explaining the Greek angle:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23774607-the-ancient-greeks-were-the-true-masters-of-obscenity.do

Rather less good is a piece for the Telegraph by Harry Mount (who 
makes some basic factual errors, as about Vergilian metre 
["iambic hexameters" being an invention of Mount's own fancy] and 
the source of the maxim "oderint dum metuant" ["Let them hate, so 
long as they fear", found in Cicero, Philippics 1.14 / 34, 
quoting the early tragedian L. Accius], and also puts forward the 
curious argument that something is not offensive if the target 
doesn't understand it!):

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/6649756/Mark-Lowe-is-right-The-Romans-said-it-better.html

In conclusion, some listmembers might also be interested in a 
less serious take on all this by British satirical news site The 
Daily Mash:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/city-boss-to-be-irrumaboed-in-prison-200911242251/


Terrence Lockyer
Johannesburg, South Africa
e-mail:  lockyert [at] mweb.co.za